Bonnie Show full post »
UntoldStories113
Bonnie, I wouldn't call it hatred; your opinion is well founded and based on your knowledge of the details! Plus, I'm absolutely with you when you say that good followups should share the general themes of the movies that came before them, and that it's important to know when there's no more stories to tell within a certain universe.

That said, I do feel that MU needs to be defended. It does expand on a plot point that's in the first movie but never properly explored, always just taken for granted; namely, Sulley and Mike's friendship. There's also the theme of taking care of someone (Boo / Oozma Kappa) although they don't want to, and there's a breakup-makeup scenario that hugely impacts the way the plot develops. I'm in conflict about the Scare Games because they feel "tacked on" to me, if that makes sense, but overall, I can definitely identify certain patterns - for example, the training scenes, Mike going missing in both movies and Sulley looking for him, Mike stealing the key cards, etcetera. There's an extensive listing of "Call Forward" instances like that on the movie's TVTropes page.

Plus, I believe they didn't get new personalities at all; in fact, IMO this is the true brilliance of MU - Pixar hit on shades of the characters (mainly Mike, Sulley, and Randall) that were always there but very well hidden.
  • Mike is really broody and negative in MU, but a chipper goofball and motor mouth in MI. Doesn't go together? In MU, he has no friends, struggles to get a job he loves, and all he basically wants is for someone to recognize and accept him. After Sulley does just that, his life takes a turn for the better - he has an awesome friend, a job he loves, a fulfilling romantic relationship, and generally no reason to complain. So why should he be negative anymore? But the signs of his past self are still there. For example, look at the commercial and magazine scenes - both Sulley and Celia are clearly worried that Mike is gonna slip into a bout of depression, and Sulley especially is really surprised and relieved when it doesn't happen. Plus, other parts of Mike's character stay largely the same, like his snarkiness and his tendency to rush into situations in what he believes is the right way.
  • Sulley is really brazen and obnoxious in MU, but down-to-earth and humble in MI. Thing is, he basically tells us that the MU personality is all just a mask held in place to try and please people he cares about. ("I act scary, Mike, but most of the time... I'm terrified.") After Mike tells him to be himself, he accepts his actual personality, which he can when he realizes that that is one that's beloved by a lot of people, and his constant, slightly over-the-top humbleness may just be an attempt to make up for the idiocy of his past actions.
  • Now Randall is where it gets really interesting. While the speed of the transformation in MU was probably too fast, the transformation itself makes total sense, especially in what this means for his relationship to Mike. Randall is shy, insecure, and kinda sweet in MU, but downright psycopathic and cruel in MI. Yet you can already see in MU that even back then, it's all just about him. Mike reassures him before the first Scaring class but never gets reassurances in return. Randall pressures him about stuff he wants to do and when Mike doesn't want to participate, Randall just leaves on his own. He doesn't even have any qualms about joining a group of people that have a habit of bullying his only friend, just to get popular. So of course in MI he'd be obsessing over how that little nobody he left for popularity has managed to get more popular than he is. Plus, he only ever directly attacks Mike, never Sulley. And look at Mike's behavior in the Scream Extractor scene - right up until the machine approaches him, he's convinced that someone who used to be his "chum" wouldn't actually harm him. There's loads of familiarity between the two in little gestures throughout the movie if you pay attention, while Sulley is rather indifferent to Randall except for being protective of Mike.
To be fair, it took me quite a while to see all this; when I left the theater after my first viewing, my mind was reeling trying to get it all reconciled. But it's all there. If you're interested in further elaboration, there's a huge listing of stuff like that on the movie's TVTropes Fridge Brilliance page.

I agree with you on most of the rest, though. I did enjoy Cars 2, but it kinda fails its purpose of being a sequel. I'm rather indifferent about Finding Dory and Cars 3; while I do like the originals, they're not important to me the way the Toy Stories and Monsters movies are.
The two Toy Story sequels we know, on the other hand, are logical and beautiful expansions of the original story; in fact, I was always convinced a third part was still missing, so I was excited and not at all surprised when it was announced. And I feel hugely conflicted about Toy Story 4; I actually want it to be largely different from the previous ones so as not to "tarnish" the utter perfection that is the trilogy.

Phew, sorry for the wall of text. But you asked. [wink]
Quote 1 0
Vellerie
UntoldStories113 wrote:
Bonnie, I wouldn't call it hatred; your opinion is well founded and based on your knowledge of the details! Plus, I'm absolutely with you when you say that good followups should share the general themes of the movies that came before them, and that it's important to know when there's no more stories to tell within a certain universe.

That said, I do feel that MU needs to be defended. It does expand on a plot point that's in the first movie but never properly explored, always just taken for granted; namely, Sulley and Mike's friendship. There's also the theme of taking care of someone (Boo / Oozma Kappa) although they don't want to, and there's a breakup-makeup scenario that hugely impacts the way the plot develops. I'm in conflict about the Scare Games because they feel "tacked on" to me, if that makes sense, but overall, I can definitely identify certain patterns - for example, the training scenes, Mike going missing in both movies and Sulley looking for him, Mike stealing the key cards, etcetera. There's an extensive listing of "Call Forward" instances like that on the movie's TVTropes page.

Plus, I believe they didn't get new personalities at all; in fact, IMO this is the true brilliance of MU - Pixar hit on shades of the characters (mainly Mike, Sulley, and Randall) that were always there but very well hidden.
  • Mike is really broody and negative in MU, but a chipper goofball and motor mouth in MI. Doesn't go together? In MU, he has no friends, struggles to get a job he loves, and all he basically wants is for someone to recognize and accept him. After Sulley does just that, his life takes a turn for the better - he has an awesome friend, a job he loves, a fulfilling romantic relationship, and generally no reason to complain. So why should he be negative anymore? But the signs of his past self are still there. For example, look at the commercial and magazine scenes - both Sulley and Celia are clearly worried that Mike is gonna slip into a bout of depression, and Sulley especially is really surprised and relieved when it doesn't happen. Plus, other parts of Mike's character stay largely the same, like his snarkiness and his tendency to rush into situations in what he believes is the right way.
  • Sulley is really brazen and obnoxious in MU, but down-to-earth and humble in MI. Thing is, he basically tells us that the MU personality is all just a mask held in place to try and please people he cares about. ("I act scary, Mike, but most of the time... I'm terrified.") After Mike tells him to be himself, he accepts his actual personality, which he can when he realizes that that is one that's beloved by a lot of people, and his constant, slightly over-the-top humbleness may just be an attempt to make up for the idiocy of his past actions.
  • Now Randall is where it gets really interesting. While the speed of the transformation in MU was probably too fast, the transformation itself makes total sense, especially in what this means for his relationship to Mike. Randall is shy, insecure, and kinda sweet in MU, but downright psycopathic and cruel in MI. Yet you can already see in MU that even back then, it's all just about him. Mike reassures him before the first Scaring class but never gets reassurances in return. Randall pressures him about stuff he wants to do and when Mike doesn't want to participate, Randall just leaves on his own. He doesn't even have any qualms about joining a group of people that have a habit of bullying his only friend, just to get popular. So of course in MI he'd be obsessing over how that little nobody he left for popularity has managed to get more popular than he is. Plus, he only ever directly attacks Mike, never Sulley. And look at Mike's behavior in the Scream Extractor scene - right up until the machine approaches him, he's convinced that someone who used to be his "chum" wouldn't actually harm him. There's loads of familiarity between the two in little gestures throughout the movie if you pay attention, while Sulley is rather indifferent to Randall except for being protective of Mike.
To be fair, it took me quite a while to see all this; when I left the theater after my first viewing, my mind was reeling trying to get it all reconciled. But it's all there. If you're interested in further elaboration, there's a huge listing of stuff like that on the movie's TVTropes Fridge Brilliance page.

I agree with you on most of the rest, though. I did enjoy Cars 2, but it kinda fails its purpose of being a sequel. I'm rather indifferent about Finding Dory and Cars 3; while I do like the originals, they're not important to me the way the Toy Stories and Monsters movies are.
The two Toy Story sequels we know, on the other hand, are logical and beautiful expansions of the original story; in fact, I was always convinced a third part was still missing, so I was excited and not at all surprised when it was announced. And I feel hugely conflicted about Toy Story 4; I actually want it to be largely different from the previous ones so as not to "tarnish" the utter perfection that is the trilogy.

Phew, sorry for the wall of text. But you asked. [wink]


Great analysis! I'm still trying to get a handle on Randall though. He sure did dump Mike without a second thought, but I wouldn't say he never did anything for Mike. He did help Mike study and during the final exam when Sulley provoked Mike, Randall suggested that Mike just move and not get into a fight with Sulley, as if he was worried that something bad would happen if Mike did (and, of course, it did). He did good and bad things imo. I'm not trying to defend him though, since I love villains and he can be pretty nasty, but there it is.

Also, another parallel was how Randall was working with someone in power in both movies, and in both cases it led to his downfall. In MU, he was under Johnny ' s bidding but he ended up humiliated in the scare games and kicked out of ROR (notice he was gone when Johnny later on approached Sulley to offer him a jacket to join them), and in MI he worked with Waternoose and ended up banished and beaten with a shovel (whether or not Randall was working for Waternoose or Waternoose was working for Randall is still debated though; I kinda wish Pixar would answer that because people have been arguing about it since the movie came out).
Quote 0 0
UntoldStories113
You're right in saying that Randall must have been friendly towards Mike to a certain degree, or Mike would have been an idiot for being friends with him, but he only does things for Mike as long as they're good for himself, too. It's not like he doesn't also benefit from studying, and when he tells Mike not to fight with Sulley, it's to get himself out of the action. If it was for Mike, he would have stood by his friend, but Randall leaves without even checking whether Mike is following him, and when it's clear that there's gonna be trouble, he hides by way of invisibility. So he's not really a better person in MU than he is in MI.

And yeah, Randall continually chooses the wrong side. (Though how can one argue about who's in charge in MI? Waternoose orders him to do stuff, and Randall tries to overthrow him. What is there to argue about? I'm confused. [Though that's probably off topic, so if you'd like to debate that, you might want to start a thread on it.])
Quote 0 0
Vellerie
Good points! It's certainly something to think about and it's in line with MI.

I think like you do; it's obvious to me that Waternoose is in charge because of lines like "I should've never trusted you with this," and Randall was set up as the red herring main villain but there was someone above even him, Waternoose ordered him to kill Mike and Sulley, etc. But some people firmly believe that it's the other way around, that Randall was in charge of the operation, and they'll site evidence for it. EDIT: yeah that's one thing I like about Randall as a villain, is that he went through with the plan as a henchman but apparently was going to turn on Waternoose too. I kinda like the idea of him subtly controlling Waternoose without Waternoose knowing, but it'd be hard doing that with a ruthless CEO like him.
Quote 0 0
Luis504170
Can´t believe I haven´t posted on this one, as I do have a very significant distaste for unnecessary sequel/prequels.

Now, I´m not one of those individuals who believes sequels shouldn´t happen. On the contrary, if you can keep a story fresh, while further layering the characters and of course the audience wanting more, go ahead! Make a sequel. Otherwise, move on. 

I adore all three Toy Story films and i thought Monsters University was decent. But John Lassetter literally got yelled at and hated for Cars 2. And he still wants to make a third? Why? Sure it will bring in another couple of billion dollars just on merchandise alone, but wasn´t it John Lassetter himself that said they would only make sequels if they have an idea that is as good or better than the first? Because if you ask me. An old car being a spy isn´t as good or better than a race car with an alter ego finding the value in the little things in life.

Let´s look at Toy Story. Toy Story 2 was just as amazing as the first. Why? It did everything that a sequel should do flawlessly. It stretched the relationship between Woody and Buzz. It introduced the idea of what could happen to toys once their owners grew up. It added new, well developed characters to reflect that idea. And i stretched the emotional depths and morals of the toys. Same for Toy Story 3.

Cars 2 is anyting but that. It is the same old silly mater doing the same old silly stuff just in different places. Add cool explotions here and there, some mindless action and voila! You have a borefest. 

Monsters University was different, because it had to start in reverse. And it´s actually as good as a prequel can get! I mean, how many amazing prequels do we get? Think..... Are you still thinking..... yeah i thought so.

I´m very hesitant on Toy Story 4, John said that this idea could be better than the rest and he couldn´t stop thinking about this idea. Isn´t that what he said about Cars 2? But I still have some hope as the other talented Pixar directors sparked this idea too. John Lasseter is a great and talented guy!! I have an inmense amount of respect for him, its just that his sequel game has been getting on my nerves.

Finding Dory I actually have hopes for, so far, it looks like it will do everything that a great sequel should do. Just from the plot, i can tell that it will give Dory a very stretched out arc. And our fishes will be pushed to new limits. And most importantly, people want to see more from these awesome characters.
Quote 0 0
Name

A Bug's Life,3,Aaron Hartline,2,Adrian Molina,3,Alan Barillaro,7,Albert Lozano,1,Alex Mandel,1,Andrea Warren,2,Andrew Gordon,3,Andrew Stanton,46,Angelique Reisch,3,Angus MacLane,32,App Review,6,Art,31,Art of Animation Resort,5,Artists Help Japan,8,Austin Madison,4,Awards,51,Bing Bong,1,Blu-Ray,40,Bob Peterson,17,Bob Whitehill,2,Bobby Podesta,1,Book Review,43,Brad Bird,13,Brave,140,BREAKING News,34,Brian Fee,4,Buzz Lightyear,10,Car Toons,2,Cars,63,Cars 2,15,Cars 3,14,Cars Land,34,Cars Toons,11,Chris Chua,1,Chris Sasaki,1,Christine Freeman,1,Coco,16,Contest,11,Craig Foster,1,Custom Pixar Gear,6,D23,23,Dan Scanlon,67,Daniel Arriaga,2,Danielle Feinberg,4,Darla Anderson,4,Dave Mullins,1,Deleted Scene,2,Denise Ream,5,Dia de los Muertos,7,Dice Tsutsumi,7,Die Cast Cars,21,Director's Commentary,9,Disney California Adventure,25,Disney Cruise,3,Disney Infinity,43,Disney Infinity 2.0,6,Disney Infinity 3.0,15,Disney Infinity Next,1,Disney Interactive,1,Disney Movies Anywhere,4,Disney World,24,Disneyland,18,Disneyland Paris,8,Easter Eggs,32,Ed Catmull,26,Enrico Casarosa,20,Erik Smitt,1,Everett Downing,1,Exclusive,11,Fan Art,28,Finding Dory,86,Finding Nemo,23,Forum,3,Fun Facts,4,Galyn Susman,6,Giveaway,3,Google Hangout,2,Hawaiian Vacation,2,Hidden Items,2,Imagineering,3,Inside Out,145,Interview,25,James Ford Murphy,12,Jamie Roe,1,Jason Deamer,1,Jason Johnston,2,Jay Ward,5,Jeff Danna,2,Jerome Ranft,1,Jim Capobianco,3,Jim Morris,3,John Lasseter,56,Jon Reisch,1,Jonas Rivera,25,Jonathan Pytko,2,Josh Cooley,17,Juliet Roth,1,Kelsey Mann,12,Kevin O'Hara,1,Knick Knack,2,Kori Rae,13,La Luna,18,Laura Meyer,2,Lava,18,Lee Unkrich,22,Lighting McQueen,8,Lindsey Collins,6,Lou,1,Luxo Jr.,2,Mahyar Abousaeedi,1,Marc Greenberg,1,Marc Sondheimer,1,Mark Andrews,36,Mark Walsh,34,Matt Jones,3,Matthew Luhn,2,Merida,11,Michael B. Johnson,2,Michael Giacchino,15,Michal Makarewicz,6,Mike Venturini,1,Monsters Inc,40,Monsters University,171,Motorama,2,Movie Review,12,Mychael Danna,4,Newt,1,Party Central,11,Partysaurus Rex,45,Patrick Lin,2,Paul Abadilla,7,Pete Docter,98,Peter Sohn,32,Piper,9,Pixar Animation Studios,76,Pixar Archives,2,Pixar Canada,14,Pixar Concept Art,29,Pixar In A Box,1,Pixar Minute,4,Pixar Pipeline Project,8,Pixar Post Book Club,12,Pixar Post Record,1,Pixar Shorts,104,Pixar Studio Story,2,Pixar Toys,41,Pizza Planet Truck,1,Podcast,51,Presto,1,Products,174,Products - A Bug's Life,6,Products - Brave,29,Products - Cars,20,Products - Cars 2,7,Products - Finding Dory,8,Products - Finding Nemo,5,Products - Inside Out,14,Products - Monsters Inc,15,Products - Monsters University,22,Products - Ratatouille,6,Products - Shorts & TV Specials,45,Products - The Good Dinosaur,7,Products - The Incredibles,7,Products - Toy Story,19,Products - Toy Story 2,5,Products - Toy Story 3,2,Products - Up,7,Products - WALL-E,7,Radiator Springs,7,Ralph Eggleston,5,Randy Newman,4,Ratatouille,18,RenderMan,4,Review,12,Ricky Nierva,4,Riley's First Date,5,Rob Thompson,1,Robert Kondo,5,Ronnie Del Carmen,6,Sandra Karpman,1,Sanjay Patel,12,Sanjay's Super Team,17,Saschka Unseld,30,Sharon Calahan,4,Shawn Krause,1,Small Fry,3,Soundtrack,36,Steve Jobs,5,Steve Purcell,18,Store - Amazon,42,Store - App Store,9,Store - Best Buy,1,Store - Disney Store,25,Store - eBay,5,Store - Hallmark,1,Store - iTunes,41,Store - Target,9,Store - Toys R Us,1,Tales From Radiator Springs,4,Teddy Newton,2,The Blue Umbrella,39,The Good Dinosaur,91,The Incredibles,15,The Incredibles 2,12,Thomas Newman,3,To Protect and Serve,4,Tony DeRose,1,Tony Fucile,1,Toy Review,18,Toy Story,75,Toy Story 3,1,Toy Story 4,20,Toy Story of Terror,37,Toy Story That Time Forgot,24,Trailer,83,Type - Books,6,Type - Clothing,2,Type - Collectibles,17,Type - Holiday,2,Type - Pins,1,Type - Plush,6,Type - Toys,15,UP,11,VanArts,5,Victor Navone,1,Video Games,44,Vinylmation,9,Wall-e,15,
ltr
static_page
Pixar Post: Contact / About Us
Contact / About Us
Pixar Post Contact and Support
Pixar Post
https://www.pixarpost.com/p/contact-us-about.html
https://www.pixarpost.com/
https://www.pixarpost.com/
https://www.pixarpost.com/p/contact-us-about.html
true
3427415425395920086
UTF-8
Loaded All Posts Not found any posts VIEW ALL Readmore Reply Cancel reply Delete By Home PAGES POSTS View All RECOMMENDED FOR YOU LABEL ARCHIVE SEARCH ALL POSTS Not found any post match with your request Back Home Sunday Monday Tuesday Wednesday Thursday Friday Saturday Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat January February March April May June July August September October November December Jan Feb Mar Apr May Jun Jul Aug Sep Oct Nov Dec just now 1 minute ago $$1$$ minutes ago 1 hour ago $$1$$ hours ago Yesterday $$1$$ days ago $$1$$ weeks ago more than 5 weeks ago Followers Follow THIS CONTENT IS PREMIUM Please share to unlock Copy All Code Select All Code All codes were copied to your clipboard Can not copy the codes / texts, please press [CTRL]+[C] (or CMD+C with Mac) to copy